Привет. Я советую вам использовать эту тему в качестве предупреждения о Cassava Enterprise, организации, которая управляет безопасностью и выводом наличных денег в сети 888.
Я играю в покер профессионально приблизительно 7 лет. У меня есть счета с большинстве известных покерных румах. Я никогда не сталкивался с таким беспределом до знакомства с 888.
В декабре 2011 я создал счет с LuckyAcePoker, который входит в сеть 888 (имя пользователя: Luckysraki). Сначала я проигрывал(несмотря на плюсовую игру по ЕВ). Но как только начал выигрывать и вышел в плюс, я получил электронное письмо, что мой счет заблокирован из-за чипдампинга(это произошло в феврале):
«Dear Vyacheslav,
I am Francis V. from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. I am contacting you in regards to your LuckyAcePoker.com account with username "LuckySraki".
We have become alerted to several patterns of play upon your account that indicate
a breach of our Terms and Conditions. We have conducted an investigation into your
account to discover any signs of fraudulent activity. The patterns we are concerned
with include members intentionally losing hands through our tables.
Therefore, in accordance with these conditions, your account with ourselves has been
blocked. If you know of any reasons, contrary to the above, please could you inform us of these.
If you wish to discuss this matter further, please feel free to contact us.
Regards,
Francis V.
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd.
operations@cassava.net »
Я написал им ответ, заявляя, что играл по правилам рум и никогда не занимался чипдампингом, и попросил провести расследование. Так как их саппорт работает очень медленно, ответ получил только неделю спустя:
«Dear Vyacheslav,
This is Natalie from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd.
Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for LuckyAcePoker. I am contacting you in regards to your account with username "LuckySraki".
Vyacheslav, I have reviewed your account and also your game history. As previously explained to you, this is when one member intentionally loses to another member so money can be passed. In your case, you have been the recipient of this process and recieved the funds from:
lamlen
Can you please provide us with any explanations you feel are relevant to the above concerns. Once we have received this, we shall be able to conclude our investigation and proceed with your account.
Your understanding and cooperation is appreciated.
Regards,
Natalie
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd
operations@cassava.net »
Покопался в ХМе и нашел 22 руки с игроком Lamlen. Проанализировал все руки и послал им подробное описание моей игры практически в каждой руке(за исключением рук с мелкими банками(<20bb)). Через неделю получил следующий ответ:
«Dear Vyacheslav,
This is Natalie from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd.
Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for LuckyAcePoker. I am contacting you in regards to your account with username "LuckySraki".
Vyacheslav, thank you for sending in your explanation regarding this matter.
Your account has been reviewed and the decision has been made to keep your account closed.
As previously explained to you, this member was intentionally losing to you so money can be passed.
Using our tables to transfer money is strictly against our Terms and Conditions and will not be tolerated.
In our Terms and Conditions which you agreed to upon opening your account you declare that the source of funds used by you for gambling on the Site is not illegal and that you will not use the Service in any way as a money transfer system. You will not use the Service for any unlawful or fraudulent activity or prohibited transaction (including money laundering) under the laws of any jurisdiction that applies to you (in particular, the laws of Gibraltar).
Therefore, as you have violated our terms and conditions, the decision has been made to close your account.
Please refrain from opening any further accounts with any site owned and/or operated by 888.com as these too will be blocked and no deposits returned.
Your understanding and cooperation is appreciated.
Regards,
Natalie
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd
operations@cassava.net»
У меня не было выбора и обратился с жалобой в eCOGRA (eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance) - организация, контролирующая деятельность сети 888. Я описал им свою проблему и после долгой переписки получил ответ:
«Dear Sir,
We have investigated your query with 888.cpm and made the following findings:
• Your account was closed for suspected chip dumping.
• The dumper was identified as:
Username: Bertunior
Name: Bernard Smolski
Country: Canada
We have analysed the play and are confident that the operator has acted according to their Terms and Conditions in locking your account and as such I must inform you that we find your dispute to be invalid.»
Это, шутка???? Cassava Enterprises обвинила меня чипдампинге против "Lamlen". А ECOGRA они сказали, что я участвовал в чипдампинге с "Bertunior". Получается что они обманули либо меня, либо eCOGRA. Я написал это eCOGRA, пытаясь показать, что Кассава лжет. Однако, я получил лишь такой ответ:
« Dear sir,
We have completed our investigation and no evidence has changed that finding. If you wish to pursue this further you will need to contact the jurisdiction where the site is licensed and lodge a complaint against the operator with the regulator.
Regards,
Tex »
Затем я обратился в GRA(Gibraltar Regulatory Authority). Я подробно описал всю ситуацию. Описал свою игру против игроков Lamlen и Bertunior. Ответ был печальный и совсем не аргументированный:
"Dear Chernykh
Thank you for your email.
Please be advised that I have completed my initial review into your complaint against Lucky Ace Poker (“Cassava”).
As well as giving your complaint careful consideration, we engaged senior management at Cassava on the matter.
I see that Cassava have concluded that you participated in chip dumping and have therefore closed your account and will not remit to you any funds in your Cassava account. I believe that Cassava are acting in accordance with the terms and conditions of Lucky Ace Poker that you agreed to when you registered there.
Cassava were able to conclude from the material and information at their disposal that you knowingly participated in the chip dumping. Cassava will not disclose details of how they came to the conclusion that you knowingly participated in chip dumping, as this information in the public domain is to the benefit of persons who look to chip dump, and to Cassava’s detriment. We are not, therefore, able to disclose to you the detail of how Cassava concluded that you knowingly participated in chip dumping.
It is apparent that Cassava have not come to their decision without good reason, and that they have acted in accordance with the terms and conditions of Lucky Ace Poker. The material and information that we have seen suggests that you have been involved in improper practice.
I am afraid, therefore, that we will not look into this matter any further. If you would like to progress this matter further, then I am afraid that you would have to do so through the relevant courts of law.
Yours Sincerely
Paul Fox
Gambling Monitor"
Затем я связался с представителем 888 на 2+2 "888rep". Он связался с кассавой и в итоге написал такой ответ:
"Hello
First of all, I’d like to say a few words as a poker player, especially to players who took the time to PM me and took a stand in this thread, showing their support for the OP.
I would’ve probably done the same.
I know just “how bad” it looks; how important it is for 888poker to be as transparent as possible in cases concerning player bankrolls.
However…
The information made available in this thread is barely partial, and bears little to no significance to the actual case. Explaining the case would require 888poker to disclose a lot of personal and statistical gameplay information about several players including our internal fraud detection mechanisms, something that we can not do in this forum.
We have done that immediately when approached by our Regulator. We have provided them with the entire set of all the relevant data regarding this complicated case and it would’ve simplified everything for 888poker here as well if we could just post it.
But we can’t.
As a poker operator, even if we know we’re 100% right, and all the information regarding this case has been independently verified by our Regulator, we just can’t dump this kind of data in public.
Run Good
888Rep "
Заметьте, опять нет никаких аргументов и написана одна лишь вода. Он не предоставил ни одной руки, которая бы вызвала подозрение на чипдампинг.
В итоге мой баланс на момент блокировки составлял 5361$, из которых 3000$ - это мои депозиты. Я уже 5 месяцев пытаюсь добиться справедливости. Порой мне приходилось писать по 3-4 письма чтобы получить ответ. Я полагаю что Кассава, еКОГРА и ГРА не проводили никаких расследований. Конкретных доказательств моей вины не предъявлено. Просят доказать меня, что я не осел...
В этой теме на 2+2 вы можете посмотреть руки, сыгранные мной против Lamlen и Bertunior:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/please-help-888-luckyacepoker-accuses-me-chip-dumping-1197961/
Если лень смотреть все раздачи, то в этой теме можете посмотреть на самые крупные банки:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/high-stakes-pl-omaha/plo400-some-hands-price-5361-a-1206964/
Также есть тема на cgm в арбитраже(если кому-то интересно).
Эта тема создана больше для того, чтобы предупредить других игроков. Но если кто-то сможет помочь, то я, конечно же, не откажусь.
Получается, что сеть 888 может заблокировать любого без объяснения причин и доказательств. А ваши доказательства их не интересуют. Я полагаю, что эта схема с блокировками поставлена на поток в 888. Видимо, менеджеры зарабатывают на этом. Удачи всем! Не попадайте в такую ситуацию...
P.S. Готов предоставить скриншоты переписки с Кассавой, еКОГРА и ГРА, если это потребуется.
Я играю в покер профессионально приблизительно 7 лет. У меня есть счета с большинстве известных покерных румах. Я никогда не сталкивался с таким беспределом до знакомства с 888.
В декабре 2011 я создал счет с LuckyAcePoker, который входит в сеть 888 (имя пользователя: Luckysraki). Сначала я проигрывал(несмотря на плюсовую игру по ЕВ). Но как только начал выигрывать и вышел в плюс, я получил электронное письмо, что мой счет заблокирован из-за чипдампинга(это произошло в феврале):
«Dear Vyacheslav,
I am Francis V. from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. I am contacting you in regards to your LuckyAcePoker.com account with username "LuckySraki".
We have become alerted to several patterns of play upon your account that indicate
a breach of our Terms and Conditions. We have conducted an investigation into your
account to discover any signs of fraudulent activity. The patterns we are concerned
with include members intentionally losing hands through our tables.
Therefore, in accordance with these conditions, your account with ourselves has been
blocked. If you know of any reasons, contrary to the above, please could you inform us of these.
If you wish to discuss this matter further, please feel free to contact us.
Regards,
Francis V.
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd.
operations@cassava.net »
Я написал им ответ, заявляя, что играл по правилам рум и никогда не занимался чипдампингом, и попросил провести расследование. Так как их саппорт работает очень медленно, ответ получил только неделю спустя:
«Dear Vyacheslav,
This is Natalie from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd.
Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for LuckyAcePoker. I am contacting you in regards to your account with username "LuckySraki".
Vyacheslav, I have reviewed your account and also your game history. As previously explained to you, this is when one member intentionally loses to another member so money can be passed. In your case, you have been the recipient of this process and recieved the funds from:
lamlen
Can you please provide us with any explanations you feel are relevant to the above concerns. Once we have received this, we shall be able to conclude our investigation and proceed with your account.
Your understanding and cooperation is appreciated.
Regards,
Natalie
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd
operations@cassava.net »
Покопался в ХМе и нашел 22 руки с игроком Lamlen. Проанализировал все руки и послал им подробное описание моей игры практически в каждой руке(за исключением рук с мелкими банками(<20bb)). Через неделю получил следующий ответ:
«Dear Vyacheslav,
This is Natalie from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd.
Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for LuckyAcePoker. I am contacting you in regards to your account with username "LuckySraki".
Vyacheslav, thank you for sending in your explanation regarding this matter.
Your account has been reviewed and the decision has been made to keep your account closed.
As previously explained to you, this member was intentionally losing to you so money can be passed.
Using our tables to transfer money is strictly against our Terms and Conditions and will not be tolerated.
In our Terms and Conditions which you agreed to upon opening your account you declare that the source of funds used by you for gambling on the Site is not illegal and that you will not use the Service in any way as a money transfer system. You will not use the Service for any unlawful or fraudulent activity or prohibited transaction (including money laundering) under the laws of any jurisdiction that applies to you (in particular, the laws of Gibraltar).
Therefore, as you have violated our terms and conditions, the decision has been made to close your account.
Please refrain from opening any further accounts with any site owned and/or operated by 888.com as these too will be blocked and no deposits returned.
Your understanding and cooperation is appreciated.
Regards,
Natalie
Operations Department
Cassava (Gibraltar) Ltd
operations@cassava.net»
У меня не было выбора и обратился с жалобой в eCOGRA (eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance) - организация, контролирующая деятельность сети 888. Я описал им свою проблему и после долгой переписки получил ответ:
«Dear Sir,
We have investigated your query with 888.cpm and made the following findings:
• Your account was closed for suspected chip dumping.
• The dumper was identified as:
Username: Bertunior
Name: Bernard Smolski
Country: Canada
We have analysed the play and are confident that the operator has acted according to their Terms and Conditions in locking your account and as such I must inform you that we find your dispute to be invalid.»
Это, шутка???? Cassava Enterprises обвинила меня чипдампинге против "Lamlen". А ECOGRA они сказали, что я участвовал в чипдампинге с "Bertunior". Получается что они обманули либо меня, либо eCOGRA. Я написал это eCOGRA, пытаясь показать, что Кассава лжет. Однако, я получил лишь такой ответ:
« Dear sir,
We have completed our investigation and no evidence has changed that finding. If you wish to pursue this further you will need to contact the jurisdiction where the site is licensed and lodge a complaint against the operator with the regulator.
Regards,
Tex »
Затем я обратился в GRA(Gibraltar Regulatory Authority). Я подробно описал всю ситуацию. Описал свою игру против игроков Lamlen и Bertunior. Ответ был печальный и совсем не аргументированный:
"Dear Chernykh
Thank you for your email.
Please be advised that I have completed my initial review into your complaint against Lucky Ace Poker (“Cassava”).
As well as giving your complaint careful consideration, we engaged senior management at Cassava on the matter.
I see that Cassava have concluded that you participated in chip dumping and have therefore closed your account and will not remit to you any funds in your Cassava account. I believe that Cassava are acting in accordance with the terms and conditions of Lucky Ace Poker that you agreed to when you registered there.
Cassava were able to conclude from the material and information at their disposal that you knowingly participated in the chip dumping. Cassava will not disclose details of how they came to the conclusion that you knowingly participated in chip dumping, as this information in the public domain is to the benefit of persons who look to chip dump, and to Cassava’s detriment. We are not, therefore, able to disclose to you the detail of how Cassava concluded that you knowingly participated in chip dumping.
It is apparent that Cassava have not come to their decision without good reason, and that they have acted in accordance with the terms and conditions of Lucky Ace Poker. The material and information that we have seen suggests that you have been involved in improper practice.
I am afraid, therefore, that we will not look into this matter any further. If you would like to progress this matter further, then I am afraid that you would have to do so through the relevant courts of law.
Yours Sincerely
Paul Fox
Gambling Monitor"
Затем я связался с представителем 888 на 2+2 "888rep". Он связался с кассавой и в итоге написал такой ответ:
"Hello
First of all, I’d like to say a few words as a poker player, especially to players who took the time to PM me and took a stand in this thread, showing their support for the OP.
I would’ve probably done the same.
I know just “how bad” it looks; how important it is for 888poker to be as transparent as possible in cases concerning player bankrolls.
However…
The information made available in this thread is barely partial, and bears little to no significance to the actual case. Explaining the case would require 888poker to disclose a lot of personal and statistical gameplay information about several players including our internal fraud detection mechanisms, something that we can not do in this forum.
We have done that immediately when approached by our Regulator. We have provided them with the entire set of all the relevant data regarding this complicated case and it would’ve simplified everything for 888poker here as well if we could just post it.
But we can’t.
As a poker operator, even if we know we’re 100% right, and all the information regarding this case has been independently verified by our Regulator, we just can’t dump this kind of data in public.
Run Good
888Rep "
Заметьте, опять нет никаких аргументов и написана одна лишь вода. Он не предоставил ни одной руки, которая бы вызвала подозрение на чипдампинг.
В итоге мой баланс на момент блокировки составлял 5361$, из которых 3000$ - это мои депозиты. Я уже 5 месяцев пытаюсь добиться справедливости. Порой мне приходилось писать по 3-4 письма чтобы получить ответ. Я полагаю что Кассава, еКОГРА и ГРА не проводили никаких расследований. Конкретных доказательств моей вины не предъявлено. Просят доказать меня, что я не осел...
В этой теме на 2+2 вы можете посмотреть руки, сыгранные мной против Lamlen и Bertunior:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/please-help-888-luckyacepoker-accuses-me-chip-dumping-1197961/
Если лень смотреть все раздачи, то в этой теме можете посмотреть на самые крупные банки:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/high-stakes-pl-omaha/plo400-some-hands-price-5361-a-1206964/
Также есть тема на cgm в арбитраже(если кому-то интересно).
Эта тема создана больше для того, чтобы предупредить других игроков. Но если кто-то сможет помочь, то я, конечно же, не откажусь.
Получается, что сеть 888 может заблокировать любого без объяснения причин и доказательств. А ваши доказательства их не интересуют. Я полагаю, что эта схема с блокировками поставлена на поток в 888. Видимо, менеджеры зарабатывают на этом. Удачи всем! Не попадайте в такую ситуацию...
P.S. Готов предоставить скриншоты переписки с Кассавой, еКОГРА и ГРА, если это потребуется.